July 19, 2011

My thoughts on the CJ fiasco

by Jesse Johnson

Let me just come right out and say it: this CJ Mahaney thing is a train wreck, is exhibit #42 for why I believe in elder lead churches, and exhibit #476 in defense of cessationism.

If you are not following from home, let me bring you up to speed. CJ, the former pastor of the Sovereign Grace flagship church in Gaithersburg, MD, was the head of the Sovereign Grace network. I say “was” because two weeks ago he stepped down in light of accusations against him. These accusations were made by former pastors who were on his staff. The essence of the accusations? CJ is proud and manipulative.

 

The main accuser, Brent Detwiler, put out over 600 pages of emails interspersed with his own commentary to make those points. I have read much of those 600 pages, and let me save you some time by telling you this: 1. Don’t waste your time. These things have been downloaded 55,000 times, and I feel sorry for anyone who has read more than 10 pages of them; 2. There is no smoking gun. Strip away all of the commentary and whining, and you are left with a picture of a pastor who is running an organization, and some associates who feel slighted.

Honestly, reading this made me ask: “Don’t these people have real sin to confront?” Some of the pastors think CJ is acting too proud, and they rate him on his pride, and they schedule meetings to talk about his pride, and CJ repents of 9 of 11 species of pride that they have identified, and they go back to the drawing board to identify examples of the other two species of pride, they email each other to ask if others have seen that pride, and then CJ thinks those fit under the first species of pride, and they chart the pride, and so on. Blah. Wouldn’t it be nice if occasionally love covered a multitude of sins?

I will give you one example, just because it illustrates the pointlessness of this whole ordeal. CJ and his wife were scheduled to speak in Phoenix around the same time. CJ emailed the executive pastor asking if he could bring his son with him, because he wanted to spend more time with him. After a few emails among the finance committee, they decided that they would rather CJ pay for it out of pocket, unless he felt like his finances were too tight, then they would give him a taxable bonus to cover the flight. CJ decided to pay for it himself, saying that the reason he wanted to bring his son is because both he and his wife were going to be there simultaneously. At this point, I felt like this was actually an exchange I had with my accounting department last week.

But then Brent (a former member of CJ’s “apostolic team” and the one who posted the emails), points out that CJ is manipulating the situation. CJ originally said he wanted his son to go with him to spend more time with him, and then changed his story and said it was really because both he and his wife would be there! AH HA!

This synoptic problem is typical of the whole lot. Maybe I am jaded. I used to attend a megachurch where the pastor got busted absconding with hundreds of thousands of dollars and the radio equipment…and he is still the pastor. CJ, meanwhile, asked permission to spend $300 on his son’s airfare—and they told him no!—but the crime is in the way he asked? Did he have too much pride in his voice?

That is not to say there is not enough blame to go around. The emails paint a stunning picture of Sovereign Grace’s approach to sanctification and church leadership. The pastors appear to have annually rated each other’s strengths and weaknesses (if that is not a recipe for disaster and disunity and six hundred pages of disgruntled emails, I don’t know what is). Sovereign Grace appears to be led by a board, and this board is different from the church, and the church is led by an apostle (or is he pastor at the church, and apostle at the board level?), and when it all shakes out, it is an ecclesiological mash-up. It is almost enough to make me want to be a fundamentalist.

In reality, this serves as an example of why churches should not be allowed to function without real elders. The NT has much to say about how to handle church leadership and sin, and this fiasco is a reminder about what happens when you deviate from that. Take out elders and replace them with an apostle, then add a board that leads a group of churches, and you officially have created something other than a New Testament church.

In the Bible, churches are led by elders. You can recognize who an apostle is, because he is the guy writing the Bible, raising dead people, and driving illnesses out of the city. Absent those guys—who have been missing for 2,000 years or so—you are left with elders running the whole thing. Also in the Bible, if an elder sins, confront him. If two or three people see a pattern of sin, they should tell it to the elders, and the elders investigate, and then they should deal with it.

It should not be that complicated. In this case, it is being mishandled and complexified for a few reasons. First, CJ is an apostle, and his co-pastors are part of an apostolic team. This is not a recipe for humility from the outset. Second: Brent apparently took the accusations to the “elders,” and did not like how they dealt with them, so he made his accusations public. This leads to the 600 pages of documents, because now rather than presenting a case to local “elders” who know everyone involved, he is obviously trying to convince anyone with an IP address that CJ is in sin. This is not the way it is supposed to work. The public is not the court of appeal for an elder decision that you don’t like. Brent is acting like a German shepherd, not a shepherd. At this point, CJ’s pride is not the issue, but rather Brent establishing a precedent that you can expose sin publically if the elders refuse to. And an attitudinal sin at that.

The latest wrinkle in the drama is that the Sovereign Grace board is taking the lead in investigating the issue. Don’t worry though, because they will also convene a board of outside experts that are not affiliated with CJ’s church. This has led Joshua Harris, who pastors the church CJ attends, to step down from the Sovereign Grace board. The very existence of a board that oversees churches is awkward, especially if they start investigating accusations of sin against a member of a church with its own leadership. But by not only taking the issue away from the local church, but by creating a second committee, they are trampling on the idea of local church autonomy. Why Sovereign Grace is doing anything publically is a little bit strange, and a basic affront to the concept of church elders acting as overseers of souls.

When you compound the layers of apostles with a rejection of the authority of elders, you still are not done, because this drama also includes charismatic chaos. The emails are filled with words of prophecy and knowledge, some of them given by unnamed people. The leaders are wondering if certain events are what was intended by various prophetic words. Not only is this whole ordeal an argument for the autonomy of the local church, but also for cessationism. Even the process of examining CJ’s attitudes gets jerked back and forth by whatever the latest prophetic word seemed to say.

I have absolutely no sympathy for Brent. He wants to show the world that CJ has pride and that he is surrounded by board members that will cover for him. Here is my advice: don’t go to a church led by an apostle, then be shocked and appalled about accountability in his life. Don’t go to a church where prophetic words from church members influence how the leadership approaches issues. This is a whacked ecclesiology (aided and abetted by abhorrent pneumatology), that Brent helped propagate, and now he wants to publically rail against it.

Brent needs to repent for putting up these emails, not because they were confidential correspondence, but because they are dumb and divisive. Brent needs to repent for leading a church that is outside the biblical model of leadership, and for going outside the authority of elders in dealing with this sin. And he should recognize that the continuationist approach to the gifts is burning his house down.

Pride is not the issue, but church leadership is.

UPDATE: I got some gracious feedback from people in SGM movement who asked me to point out that some of the issues about church structure I point out may have been true when the 600+ pages of emails were written, but they have changed. Recently SGM has tried to stress the elder-led nature of their churches. How that jives with the board looking into this issue is a matter that I don’t know about. Let’s keep the comments away from “if this change really happened”  and on the point of the post.

Jesse Johnson

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Jesse is the Teaching Pastor at Immanuel Bible Church in Springfield, VA.
  • http://archersinsa.blogspot.com Clint

    My German Shepherd at least obeys his master. I hope Brent reads this blog. Good word Jesse.

  • http://www.uburu.com Blake

    Hey Jesse, I realize this is not the place for it here, but I can’t find another means to contact anyone running the site. When I try to use the search form at the top right of the page, it usurps my search request for an email subscription request. Test out the search form and see the error I’m talking about. Thanks.

  • Pingback: Some Ordinary Links | Ordinary Pastor

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683030093 Jerry Minor

    Your “hundreds of thousands of dollars and radio equipment” link lead to a subscriber only ABQ Journal website.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683030093 Jerry Minor

    Your “hundreds of thousands of dollars and radio equipment” link lead to a subscriber only ABQ Journal website.

    • Anonymous

      I took the link down. You have to subscribe to see it, and it costs $8. Alas.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683030093 Jerry Minor

    Your “hundreds of thousands of dollars and radio equipment” link lead to a subscriber only ABQ Journal website.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683030093 Jerry Minor

    Your “hundreds of thousands of dollars and radio equipment” link lead to a subscriber only ABQ Journal website.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683030093 Jerry Minor

    Your “hundreds of thousands of dollars and radio equipment” link lead to a subscriber only ABQ Journal website.

  • Mary Elizabeth Tyler

    Do they actually believe they are apostles?

    “First, CJ is an apostle, and his co-pastors are part of an apostolic team. This is not a recipe for humility from the outset.”

    • Anonymous

      From what I understand, they don’t see themselves so much as Apostles in the Pauline sense, but in the sense of leading a network of churches. It is the idea that if all of the gifts are still going, the gift of apostleship is one of them, and this is what it looks like today: overseeing a network of churches.

      • Mary Elizabeth Tyler

        Thank you for clarifying that, Jesse. It is just a sad situation all the way around. When one exposes the sins of another, (s)he should be prepared to answer for their own, as well. I know…haven’t we all been guilty of this at one time or another?

      • Andy Underhile

        The use of the word “Apostle” is problematic regardless of what sense it’s used in. The word has been used in the “Pauline sense” for 2,000 years. How can they really believe that they can redefine it? The meaning and function was established by Christ when He appointed His twelve.

        Could I reinvent the word “hitman” to mean “someone who pats cryng babies on their backs to help them fall back asleep” and then assume that no one is going to be skittish about entrusting their kids to me?

        • http://twitter.com/clarkdunlap Clark E. Dunlap

          FUNNY! But I was around ministries for years that were charismatic and would never say their ‘apostles’ could write scripture or had the level of authority in the church at large that the biblical apostles had. But I’m not sure why not. If anyone in church can speak a prophetic word and say, “Thus saith the Lord,” then why aren’t we writing those down and adding them to our ring binder bibles? I actually asked that one day. Didn’t get an answer. Later I read Grudem’s answer and that helped part of the way…part of the way out that is.

          • Headbishop

            Where is Grudem’s answer found? Thanks–

        • http://www.facebook.com/JoshElsom Josh Elsom

          Apostle is not an office which was limited to Jesus’ 12, Paul and Matthias.

          Acts 14:14 – But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out…

          Galatians 1:19 – But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

          Romans 16:7 – Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

          1 Thessalonians 2:6 – Nor did we (Silvanus and Timothy) seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.

          • Reneiddub

            Thanks for the Scriptures Josh…These passages don’t point to an apostolic office; rather they indicate the functional force of the word “apostolos” (one who is sent with a commission).

          • Anonymous

            The only two of those I have studied are Gal 1:19 and Rom 16:7, and I am comfortable with those both being references to the 12.

            That said, clearly the word is used in other places to mean people other than the 12, which I’m also fine with. Labeling it as a spiritual gift that is still on going, and making it an office that is above local church elders is where I throw my penalty flag.

  • http://www.facebook.com/martinpost John Martin

    Thanks Jesse. Grateful for your clear evaluation of this thing.

  • Shayne

    Hopefully friends to CJ like Mark Dever are able to make the case to SGM that they have a “whacked ecclesiology.” Jesse, you’ve nailed the problem, and the solution is not more of the same.

  • Anonymous

    It’s pretty sad to see this land on CJ’s head. Hopefully this will serve to shine a little light on the importance of all areas of doctrine (pneumatology, ecclesiology, sanctification, etc.) and not just justification. Thanks for cutting it straight.

  • Doc B

    “Strip away all of the commentary and whining, and you are left with a picture of a pastor who is running an organization, and some associates who feel slighted.”

    Wow…that’s probably the best, succinct summary of the whole mess I’ve seen. I was one of the unfortunates who actually read a large part of the 600 pages (admittedly skimming some of the repetitive emails, etc.). Your summary mirrors my thoughts exactly.

    There were a few times I felt voyeuristic while reading the correspondence…which I think points to the importance of elders dealing with these issues, and hopefully Mr. Detwiler and the others will be called to account and repent for their public airing of private matters.

  • Michael Whitcomb

    Cash Money, Jesse.

  • candyinsierras

    I have been following this somewhat, and in my mind’s eye see the SGM blogs piling on more burning logs on the fire, people running for their pitchforks, the level of noise escalating, and the lynch mob organizing. I know there were real hurts, but there does not seem to be a path toward repentence and reconciliation on a practical level for parties concerned, but rather continued stories of hurt and resentment. I also think it is a bit weird that these documents get released a bit at a time, which just seems to add more fuel to the fire. I think the latest one (installment 7 I believe) by Brent seemed like a revenge document. Overkill. It is like watching a reality show. Sovereign Shore or something.

  • Matthew

    I was marveling at how this situation was being handled.
    Good job at getting to the core of it.

    The fact that all these emails/documents are available online via a ‘SGMwikileaks’ website and that Brent was writing 140+ pages of stuff (including table of contents and history of his entire friendship –WITH FOOTNOTES! is beyond comprehension.

    Soon we’ll be church disciplining people using twitter!

    Thankful for this article brother….

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Carter/100001269159960 Kevin Carter

    This seems to be a case of pride for Brent. What are his motives for doing this? It is def not to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is also not to lead others to the church where they can hear the gospel because it will confirm many who d/n go because of the drama there. The unintended consequences are going to be wider spread than he and the other “leaders” desired. So as publicly as he rebuked CJ, he should repent for his actions, and maybe look at downsizing their organization and boards and committees cuz just trying to keep up makes me dizzy.

  • megan

    Solid, though my favorite example of the pointlessness was the pedantic argument over vacation time that went on for pages and pages. I stopped reading at that point. Glad to learn I didn’t miss anything.

    There does seem to be an unusually large (or, at least, unusually vocal) contingent of former members who also learned that, contrary to popular belief, love doesn’t cover a multitude of sins. That needs to be addressed. But near as I can figure, there’s no path to repairing that yet because they’re still fixated on what to do with CJ, and how to spin doctor a 600+-page screed on narcissism written by a man who, though he has pegged some important issues, seems to be something of a personal expert in the subject of pride.

  • http://mriccardi.blogspot.com Mike Riccardi

    Nailed it. Thanks Jesse.

  • Chad Graham

    Great clarity here Jesse, many of us have been confess by the publicity and “odd ess” of what was happening. Now the pieces have come together.

  • Mark

    Thanks Jesse. I can’t help but consider that we are witnessing one of the potentially negative impacts of technology. Email, blogs, etc. if not used with wisdom and discernment can be painful tools of discord. Blogging itself has the potential to give way to too much information and personal opinion (this statement itself may be an example). I pray this one will be vigilant for truth, benefit and discernment.

    A phone call, or better yet, an in person meeting can filter and increase our sensitivities that the anonymity of the internet seems to reduce.

    • Matthew

      I agree!

  • John

    Jesse,

    Well written and good summary that helps clarify the trouble with not having a local board of elders to oversee the local church coupled with an overly obsessive application of sanctification that moves beyond the clear commands of Scripture.

    I looked hard at SGM ministries some years ago as a possible affiliation. I loved their obvious passion for the Lord and desire to live obedient lives and be doctrinally sound.

    But I was troubled by two things:

    1. The lack of Biblical structure for the local church with only one leader, the senior pastor who in no way is accountable to the local church. Let’s be honest and agree that many large evangelical churches who have church boards still have senior pastors who function with near autonomy. It is not the board per se, it is a healthy board that follows Biblical principles and acts in maturity in relationship that makes the difference. Posting emails from the past with commentary is gossip and betrayal of friendship. If I was CJ I would be heart broken.

    2. I see the major issue at present is the application of the doctrine of sanctification in such a way that the leadership takes the place of the Holy Spirit’s work in confronting sins of every kind of nature. The practice of this in SGM go back to its roots in the Discipleship Movement in the 1970′s where you as a member had to live in homes that only had others from the same church and your daily lives were under the constant inspection of the “head” of the home. You could not even have a meal with an “outsider” unless your “head” approved it. I know. I have had friends and family deeply damaged years ago by this practice.

    When I had several personal conversations with CJ and other top leaders I was deeply impressed with their desire to obey the Lord. But was troubled when asked what the path way is to become at SGM pastor. I was told (inspite of an MDiv magna cum laude from a top Evangelical Divinity school, inspite of having planted several churches that numbered in the many hundreds, inspite of a loving marriage and no moral failures) that a SGM staff member would have to live in my home for a year to evaluate whether I was worthy. That was after I had spent 3-6 months living in a SGM pastors home. And then going through their own pastoral school. Basically 3-4 years on the sidelines under the microscope.

    I appreciated their desire to examine potential pastors carefully. Well done. But, who can put their lives on hold that long and not earn a living as a pastor when that was God’s calling already on their life? Needless to say, “outsiders” becoming pastors in SGM are few and far between. I don’t know that the current practice is for joining it may have changed of late. So was I surprised about this blow up? Sadly not.

    The NT seems to me to focus on confronting objective behavior as being the object of correction. I am hard pressed to find Biblical commands saying that we are to address motives in one another’s lives. Yet, SGM has a long history and practice of an obessive examination of perceived attitudinal sin. Does not the Scriptures tell us the heart is deceitful above all things and a mystery? If you cannot know our own heart clearly, how can we dare to say we know the heart of another? Did not the Apostle Paul himself say he does not even judge his own heart? The NT holds up examples of godly attitude in multitudes of places, but I don’t see that as the responsibility of others to be disecting and correcting with surgical precision.
    So, the very sad situation that is being played out is simply the inevitable outworking of this over developing doctrine of sanctification in the context of an unbiblical leadership structure.

    I differ to blame spiritual gifts. I am not a cessationist. It is the misuse of spiritual gifts in the context of unbiblical leadership and a hyper-controlling doctrine of sanctification that are the issue, not gifts per se.

    I do see this as a challenge to all of us to have a clearly developed doctrine of sanctification that gives us principles to live by in mutual agreement. What sins are to be addressed in confrontation? When does love cover a multitude of sins? When and how does the failings of leadership become addressed? etc. That would be the take away for all of us to work on teaching and clarifying in our own local church as elders/pastors.

    May God show us all mercy, on that great day where none of us could stand without the unmeasurable grace of God.

  • Suzanne

    Excellent.
    The winnowing winds keep kicking up…the Church needs so much prayer, so much wisdom in this deceptive age. Let God’s word be true…

  • http://twitter.com/WilliamsonShane Shane Williamson

    This is crazy. I only heard of this until now. But yeah, this sounds both a pathetic and loveless environment that essentially is not good for the body of Christ. Thanks for the post Jesse. Mahaney is a great godly man. Time to get our guns out? Haha…Im just kidding.

  • Robert Sakovich

    Good post, Jesse. I agree with Kevin that, ironically, this is a manifestation of Brent’s own pride and that he needs to spen more time reading Scripture and looking in the mirror than trying to broadcast all of these e-mails.

    I also agree with your points about elder led churches and cessationism. In fact, I’d say that these two problems go hand in hand, as displayed within a couple of major false religions (LDS and RCC). I’m not saying SGM is in the same catgeory as these two as far as their doctrine and beliefs, but their practice seems to be very similar.

  • Jim Kang

    Thanks for the biblical and theological analysis. If anything else, we all can certainly learn from this. Blessings to you, brother.

  • http://profiles.google.com/rastarke Rachael Starke

    I agree with the main thrust of this piece completely. But it’s disappointing that people have given in to naming the name of Mahaney’s main accuser, and calling attention to his utterly unbiblical, factious Internet campaign. Now every watchblogger and disgruntled, disciplined former church member knows that the key to success is persistence. It was encouraging to see people pointedly ignore the various random comments the attack dogs would pos various paces over the last few yearst; it’s equally discouraging for people to decide now they’ve got a free pass to just take a looksee for the sake of “informing our prayers” or whatever. It just seems like a flagrant violation of Proverbs 17:9. To that end, Justin Taylor’s blog has a great piece by Tim Keller and David Powlison on passing on bad reports. (I don’t want to be a link troll, but just search for it there.) It really lays out a case for assessment and action being confined to in-person communication, and then love covering the rest in silence by those directly involved.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for pointing me toward JT’s piece. I appreciate it.

  • Anonymous

    thanks ! Pastor. Jesse. I leanrned a lot about Chruch discipline. it was great.

  • candyinsierras

    I think that CJ is somewhat at fault also. He helped build the structure, and he and other pastors evaded issues or swept things under the rug and the result is years of festuring wounds. Unfortunately many people involved have taken full advantage of the internet as a way to vent which doesn’t bring about resolution, but rather keeps the fuel burning. I do think there were a couple of issues that really did need addressing. Sexual abuse or molestation in the church not only has to be addressed biblically but lawfully as well. The blackmail issue was disappointing
    , but that got dealt with eventually.

  • Don Johnson

    “It is almost enough to make me want to be a fundamentalist.”

    Almost persuaded! Would that you were! :)

    Seriously, though, I don’t think a problem like this can be solved merely by “multiple elders” in leadership. Although the SGM structure isn’t exactly like a multiple elder church like Grace Community, there are enough similarities to make me think it isn’t that different.

    The major difference is a denominational board that oversees multiple churches, but most of the denominational board (apostles) are all in Covenant Life, the ‘mother-church’ of SGM. It would be better to have more local autonomy, but it seems there is a broad ‘elder-like’ rule for the whole denomination.

    The bigger problem here is a confused doctrine of accountability and the “word of knowledge” theology which gives freedom to the biggest personalities in the group to dominate the others by bringing charges of pride, etc, which must be confessed in order to move forward. Somehow I don’t think this is really all that helpful to spiritual life and mutual love. It is bound to fracture as those who don’t get their way become frustrated with the process.

    In any case, I think your analysis is very good, the issues involved seem relatively minor on the surface, but there is a systemic flaw in church organization and practice of discipleship.

    Maranatha!
    Don Johnson
    Jer 33.3

  • FredB

    For a group who fancy themselves as obeying God above all else, I find it a bit troublesome that they insist this matter with CJ has to be played out on the internet in full view of the evangelical public. Honestly, this is none of our business. I’ve been slighted by pastors I work with, and I am sure I have slighted them, too. Never did it cross my mind to publish blogs and emails complaining about my hurt feelings.

    • Anonymous

      One only ONE who insisted is the ONE who made it public. One person who is anonymous.

      • Fred Butler

        If you mean CJ, he is just as guilty about going public as all the rest. I said so at my own blog. All of this is none of our business and sadly reflects the bizarre, “we must be transparent” personal holiness views of the entire SGM project.

  • Eric Davis

    This kind of thing could likely happen more and more with the multi-site and multi-campus ecclesiology fad.

    • Joshsliffe

      the fact that you use the word fad just seems like your trying to cut at people who have adopted it. not very helpful… or nice.

      • Anonymous

        In fairness, it is kind of a fad. I mean it started recently with some big name pastors and is spreading like wildfire, with some equally shaky ecclesiology behind it. I mean, MD’s church has a campus in Albuquerque. The church members aren’t even in the same time zone as their elders.

        But I do think there are some churches that strive to do it well/biblically.

  • Laura T

    Thanks for clarifying the real issues here!

  • An SGM member

    You make the point that this is a case of a staff member who felt slighted. I think it’s even more direct than that. This is a wrongful discharge case. A guy raised a (legitimate) grievance against his boss through the proper organizational context, and his boss retaliated by firing him. This has obviously resulted in a loss of income for Mr. Detweiler. In the large public company where I am a senior exec, in our ethics training we are tought that retailiating against a subordinate who brings a grievance is grounds for action against me. Not sure why a ministry would be subject to a lesser ethical standard than a public company? I’m not an attorney, but it seems to me any repentance by SGM needs to include restitution for the actual damages suffered by Mr. Detweiler.

    • Anonymous

      Sure, but that couldn’t be further from the point. In the church, you don’t do what Brent is doing. If this is a civil case, he should read 1 cor 6, or sue. Bu this is not either of those options.

      • Anonymous

        What are you accusing Brent of doing? Making the public? He did not publicize them.

  • guest

    in part 3 page 158 or so cj and the team engage in dialogue with an exiting pastor that looks a lot like blackmail. wade through the ridiculous amount of information and that little vignette in the day and life of an sgm pastor is very troubling. pride in a leader and not asking for airfare in the proper way might sound trivial, but these men probe each others’ lives to a debilitating degree. and taken as a whole, brent’s thesis paints a picture that other men were expelled from ministry for.

    • Anonymous

      Fine. Confront him, or go to his elders. This is not either of those two options.

      This is 600 plus pages of species of pride. If page x paragraph y is the issue, ditch the rest.

      • guest

        the lack of brevity i can’t explain. so no objection from me. but, in a system that is lead by ‘apostles’ and is not classically elder lead; in a system where pastors and elders and apostles are all the same; in a system where the average church goer has ZERO say in who their leaders are, and with no mechanism to express concerns to leaders, neither formally nor informally, what would you do? sgm churches are not even incorporated as churches. do the math on this one. they are run like a religious oligarchy.

        • Anonymous

          You find a better church, and do so quietly.

          • guest

            thats not me. i make noise.

          • Anonymous

            Therein lies the problem.

          • Kerrin

            Why would this be mandated? When there exists such a system that calls itself “a church” where abuse of power occurs why wouldn’t you shout warnings from the roof tops? Why wouldn’t you scream for justice in the face of such a tyrannical system?

          • guest

            exactly.

            @ jarbitro

            and why is that a problem? and who is that a problem for exactly? and what of the lives of real people who were taken to such a church as a child. grew up there. were taught to TRUST ‘elders’ there. made decisions based on doctrine/polity/example of elders there, that massively changed the trajectory of their lives. only to discover later that the reality is wildly different than the foot that was put forward. but real damages have been done. where does such a person go from here? and what would you say if such a person said nothing and let it happen to someone else?

            i appreciate your intent, because i imagine your concern is primarily for the gospel, but your position forgets the people along the way because it is shortsighted and thoughtless.

          • jkjohnson

            Because it is divisive and churches are commanded to remove those people from their rank and association. Because it is in clear violation of how we handle grievances in Matthew 6, and the key word you need to get from that is it should be handled quietly and graciously. Because you should read the post on the blog earlier this week regarding our attitude toward fellow believers who might even approach their ministry with a greater bent of error than we do.
            Believers are all on the same team and when things like this are shouted from the rooftops, the ignorant hear and draw even more ridiculous conclusions than the whistle blower.

          • Kerrin

            @jkjohnson: First what does Matt 6 have to do with this? In that passage I read about giving to the needy, prayer, fasting, treasures in heaven, and provision (not worrying). I would direct you to the following passage that actually does apply: 1 Corinthians 5:6-13 (removing the unrepentant believer — CJ Mahaney and those in SGM leadership who continue to abuse their parishioners). Additionally, I suppose you would say Luther was wrong because he didn’t oppose the abuses of power within the Medieval Catholic Church “quietly and graciously”?

            Even Tim Keller sees that much of the “skeptical” world has good points about the abuse of power within the Evangelical American Church (reference his book A Reason for God).

          • jkjohnson

            @Kerrin
            Ooops, I mean Matt 18.

            1 Cor 5:6-13 deals with unbelievers, hence the phrase ‘so-called brother’ in the NASB. This passage deals with with nonbelievers who are an ‘immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler’.

            Regarding Luther, his accomplishments regarding God’s Kingdom are similar to our own in how they are considered to be of merit. That being that every time God uses us to accomplish something for His glory it is in spite of ourselves through His grace.
            His 95 Theses were also written in Latin, so nobody but clergy could even read it. He made a big splash because the Catholic church and government were so closely tied together that disagreeing with Catholic theology was cause at the time cause for things like trial and execution or exile. Luther addressed his concerns almost exclusively to clergy before his exile.

            Certainly there are abuses of power in churches, but if that exists here, I haven’t see evidence of it personally. I can’t say I am fully aware of all the is going on at SGM, but I can say there appears to be an element of bitterness and pride on Brent’s side in failing to speak with CJ or a mediator without CJ’s acknowledgement that Brent is right and CJ is wrong. CJ has already shown humility in his acknowledgement of some of these accusations as true, but I don’t see that kind of introspection in his accusers.

            Besides all this we still come (again) to the point that we are exclusively used by God for His Glory in spite of our selves through His grace alone. The best thing we can do in situations that deal with error in the church is conduct ourselves as Christ would have us conduct ourselves. That is, with much grace and humility as speaking to our fellow sinners covered by grace. These are our brothers and sisters in Christ, we’re a family and airing our family’s dirty laundry is not what we’re about.

            I’ve seen, and been a part of more than one of these kinds of dramas from multiple points of view and people get hurt and embittered easily when we forsake Grace and Humility.

          • jkjohnson

            @Kerrin
            Ooops, I mean Matt 18.

            1 Cor 5:6-13 deals with unbelievers, hence the phrase ‘so-called brother’ in the NASB. This passage deals with with nonbelievers who are an ‘immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler’.

            Regarding Luther, his accomplishments regarding God’s Kingdom are similar to our own in how they are considered to be of merit. That being that every time God uses us to accomplish something for His glory it is in spite of ourselves through His grace.
            His 95 Theses were also written in Latin, so nobody but clergy could even read it. He made a big splash because the Catholic church and government were so closely tied together that disagreeing with Catholic theology was cause at the time cause for things like trial and execution or exile. Luther addressed his concerns almost exclusively to clergy before his exile.

            Certainly there are abuses of power in churches, but if that exists here, I haven’t see evidence of it personally. I can’t say I am fully aware of all the is going on at SGM, but I can say there appears to be an element of bitterness and pride on Brent’s side in failing to speak with CJ or a mediator without CJ’s acknowledgement that Brent is right and CJ is wrong. CJ has already shown humility in his acknowledgement of some of these accusations as true, but I don’t see that kind of introspection in his accusers.

            Besides all this we still come (again) to the point that we are exclusively used by God for His Glory in spite of our selves through His grace alone. The best thing we can do in situations that deal with error in the church is conduct ourselves as Christ would have us conduct ourselves. That is, with much grace and humility as speaking to our fellow sinners covered by grace. These are our brothers and sisters in Christ, we’re a family and airing our family’s dirty laundry is not what we’re about.

            I’ve seen, and been a part of more than one of these kinds of dramas from multiple points of view and people get hurt and embittered easily when we forsake Grace and Humility.

          • Kerrin

            @jkjohnson

            CJ committed immoral behavior: coercion of a fellow pastor to accomplish his own power grab. As it is clear in 1 Cor. 5:6-13 he should be removed from his office. His “humility” thus far is pathetic and it would seem forced by recent things being brought to light. He has only really acknowledged “the accusations” of wrongdoing and shown very little in terms of responsibility for such.

            I believe your points about Luther are moot: times have changed, there is no special “clergy” language with which we can secretly communicate these days. He also wrote many, many pamphlets expressing differing views than the Catholic Church that the average person could read. As you can see by Brent’s documents he tried to communicate the problems “quietly” within the ranks of the clergy and was not listened to. Additionally, the average “parishioner” within the walls of SGM has little to no recourse in expressing “concerns.”

            So you haven’t seen evidence of abuse, personally, then why would you be so willing to defend this institution without proof to show otherwise? There are blogs that have been around for a number of years now reporting on the abuse of power that exists within SGM. Are you willing to turn a blind eye to the wake of individuals lying on the side of the road wounded and hurt by this organizations repeated and unreported abuses? Where does the Good Samaritan exits in this “family” you speak of?

            I spent 20 years of my life at the flagship SGM “church,” CLC. You can read about my recent attempt to leave this so called “church” here: http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=2203. As to your point about conducting ourselves as Christ would: did he not turn the tables over in the “house of his Father”? Did he not call very public attention to the abuses of the religious leaders in this time (e.g., the Sadducees and Pharisees)? Where is the “grace and humility” you speak of in those actions?

  • Anonymous

    I think something very important is missing here from your post and also your commenters. There seems to be a lot of accusations pointed to Brent Detwiler as the one who publicized these documents. I do not believe that he is the one who publicized them. He clearly states who he sent the documents to. Someone else made them public. If I remember correctly, Josh Harris alludes to this in one of the CLC meetings.

    And regarding your sentence that he went outside the authority of elders in dealing with the sin – who was he to go to? He followed the Matt 18 principles. They would have none of it. He saw that the leadership was corrupting his church. What would you propose he do after he was met with deaf ears?

    • The Little Guy

      Yes, Brent sent the documents to leaders in SGM, not the public. I think the documents and the “Survivor” blogs should have been given more attention that Jesse gave them. There is much more going on than “you are left with a picture of a pastor who is running an organization, and some associates who feel slighted.” A pastor who is running an organization. Really? That’s all you see? I think Jesse got bored very quickly and just skimmed the documents, and ignored years of abused and crushed staff and members who did band together in mutual support on the blogs. Jesse’s cavalier attitude is disheartening. Joshua Harris said Mahaney’s failings were serious, and they are. Above Reproach has to mean something, doesn’t it?

      • Denise

        The Little Guy, that’s how I see it also. The plethora of folks burned by SGM indicates something very wrong with not only the structure, but the leaders themselves. Leaders can’t hide from God–He will deal with them eventually.

      • Anonymous

        I confess to getting bored while reading them. You got me there :)

        Seriously though, I think you let love cover these kind of sins. If you want to leave, leave. But if you see sin in a pastor, and witnesses back you up, go to the elders. What they do with it is not your responsibility as a believer. Move on. Have a good life. But don’t ride this thing until it gets resolved to your own satisfaction. That is not what you are called to do.

      • Anonymous

        As for being above reproach, I agree that it has to mean something. I am staying out of that one way or the other. It is for CJ’s church to decide. This is not American Idol, where the fans vote.

        Look, I get that people have been hurt by SGM. And the Bible gives us a method to deal with sin. What is occurring here is not that method.

    • Denise

      Jewell, I agree. I’ve read many former SGMers’ accounts of shepherding issues which I believe are valid. I have also experienced really bad shepherding on top of doctrinal issues too from elders/pastors. I know what its like when they circle the wagon and refuse to read the paper work that clearly demonstrate the problems. If it were just Detwiler, he still should have been heard –I mean HEARD—and true shepherding should’ve taken place–and if he was wrong, then address that of course. However, dozens and dozens of people with similar stories can’t all be be lying; especially given the nature of SGM and its doctrine (for years they opened up membership to Third Wave Penecostals–that part of their doctrinal statement suddenly disappeared a few years back without any correction IF there was a change in doctrine on that). Even Harris sees the legitimacy of at least some of the concerns. I find the legalism that these “apostles” have perpetuated that itself is divisive. Unity at any cost? Use the bullyclub on the sheep so they put up and shut up or leave? Silence won’t help resolve the glaring issues SGM has, and until their hand was forced, it would’ve continued all the while under the unquestioned support of so many, just like they have for Driscoll and Piper. For folks who hold to the universal church, I find the rejection of going public via the internet…..interesting.

      • Anonymous

        Jewell: I would propose that he leave quietly. But I think you are missing my main point. I’m not trying to defend CJ. I am saying that the system is the issue. You can’t be part of a church with no real elders and have their view of the gifts then be shocked, shocked I say, that there is no accountability. What did he think would happen?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Iskorostensky/791489323 Andrew Iskorostensky

    This is good one. Thank you.

  • Scott

    Without a doubt the best post I’ve read on the situation. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • Rebekah Wentling

    Cannot believe this! This happened in my church 6+ months ago. Three men, led by one, approached the elder board of my church, stating that they saw a pattern of unrighteousness with our pastor teacher that included pride. Our elder board investigated it, 7 out of 8 disagreed with the accusations, one decided to step down because he did not agree with the elder board. The three who were dismissed then told everyone what was going on, the lead guy also had a book of documentations about 60 pages long the included e-mails and dialect. He made it public to our church body, held meetings at his house, called members of the church to “warn” them. Just like that, our church was divided and split. Amazing to see it happening to another godly man like CJ

    • The Little Guy

      CJ does not come across in his own e-mails as a godly man.

    • Carmen

      There were no calls made warning people. Everyone has there own story to tell of why they left the church. Ask questions from others you will find it is nothing like what you are telling. CJ is also stepping down. He is examining his heart. That is so much more than we could expect from the head elder at GBC.

  • Chris Yarzab

    Thank you Jesse for taking the time to write this. You’ve brought to light some serious issues that people need to examine.

  • Svd4gvn

    Thank you Brother! I have seen a church with a plurality of elders and one lead by a man and a “church board” ran the church. This is obviously more of a train wreck than that was but if it had been a mega-church it easily could have reached this level. Thank you for making this so clear. My prayer is for the church universal to see this.

  • Alineadesign

    Definitely trickle-down-economics from the top down at SGM churches. For those who have never been a member or not involved in a SGM church –you have NO idea what it is like to be scared of your SGM leaders. It is difficult to explain what it is like to be bullied by your small group leaders & have Pastors constantly “speaking into your life” about family issues & if you disagree are told that:”God is resisting you!”. (Strong words to hear for non-incidences of any notable sin.). If you try to leave you are threatened that they will find out where you go & tell your next Pastor that you are: “rebellious, unteachable, and devicive”. It creates much confusion, brokeness and much hurt to be treated like this….

    The claims against SGM & CJ also include blackmail and covering up incidences of child abuse- did you miss that? How about the hundreds of hurt, scared and displaced sheep ? Hardly a small
    issue of “pride”. His self-proclaimation of an apostle is far from a definition of a Godly man!!

    There are so many complexities to this– unless you have been directly involved in SGM it will be hard for you to understand how it is to be involved in this “family of churches.”

  • http://www.youtube.com/lanech Lane Chaplin

    Awesome critique of the situation, Jesse. “Charismatic Chaos” is not an oxymoron.

    • Marian

      SGM is hardly Charismatic, and it’s leaders are not following the Lord, but rather a man.

  • http://www.tmiano.com Tony Miano

    Well said. By the way, the invitation still stands for you to join me on the streets to proclaim the gospel.

  • Jeri Tanner

    Great article, thanks.

  • Mesfin

    With a lot of the things you have said about this fiasco, it leaves me scratching my head of how this Apostle and Dr MacArthur found themselves speaking from the same platform!

    • Anonymous

      Well to Pastor John’s credit, we don’t practice secondary separation. I really am grateful that he can share a pulpit with CJ or with Ligon Duncan, both of whom differ on ecclesiological issues. But fortunately agreement on secondary issues are not necessary to share in ministry.

      • Don Johnson

        Hmmm… Ask Phil about that one, Jesse. Don’t think that is necessarily so.

        Maranatha!
        Don Johnson
        Jer 33.3

  • http://hereiblog.com/ Mark

    Jesse, being a Baptist I don’t agree with the way SGM has their leadership structured. Honestly, I never knew this is how they are set-up. I suppose if I had ever sought membership in an SG church I would know and then not have been comfortable.

    Anyway, a friend of mine who is a former Presbyterian (now an Acts 29 Baptist) commented to me that these SG issues would probably not have gotten past the local church elders. If the issue did move past them he thought the furthest it would have gotten is to the local presbytery.

  • David

    “It is almost enough to make me want to be a fundamentalist.” This made me laugh.

  • Butterflyinthedark

    Seems to me, this is not the best time to be piling on “I-told-you-so”s, but I guess if you’re a blogger who wants more readers, you have to take advantage of those times when people are already being attacked by fellow believers.

    • Anonymous

      I see your point, but honestly, I looked around and didn’t find any other good blog article on this issue. I don’t want to be piling on. I really thought that this piece would help clarify the issues for people that read my blog.

      When I think about what to write, I think about the most common questions I’ve been getting. Rather than continue to write the same email 100xs, I blog it. In this case, this situation was so obviously out in the open. In one sense, this was an internet issue, fueled by wikileaks and blog statements. SGM and CJ himself are all communicating about this via their blogs, so it seemed to be the appropriate medium. I agree though that this should have been handled at the local church level, rather than the blogosphere.

  • Matt.R

    I think that this is definitely been a fair assessment from someone on the outside trying to be objective about this situation. However, this being the case, it is somewhat inaccurate. I am a member of a Sovereign Grace Church in Southern Ca. I have been a member for about six years now. My church has been a real blessing to my family and I. I have never seen abuses such as this in my own church. Sovereign Grace does believe in a plurality of elders. I have actually been through leadership training at the church. Remember, this ministry is a network of churches. It is not a denomination.There is accountability, but autonomy as well. I have never seen prophetic words guide our leadership in this manner. Sovereign Grace is not “Open But Cautious” in any sense of this term. They are fully continuous in their stance. I am not fully convinced of their position, but they are in no way whacked out! Brent may have been wrong, and I tend to agree with this blog post in the way Brent handled this. At the same time it is still early in this situation, and time will tell what has really transpired. I pray for our group of churches at this current time. I am sure that good will come from this as some reformation needs to occur from this situation. One last thing, I have seen this accusation before in regards to their views on sanctification. I do not see any difference in Sovereign Grace’s views compared to Grace Community’s views. I have sat under both. Their has been no sin seeking or motive judging in my church leadership, or in the other churches from this ministry I have visited or know. They preach that Justification is the engine to Sanctification, not the other way around. That is what drew me in to their preaching in the first place. I have experienced far more legalism in other Reformed churches. Anyway, some food for thought!

    • Anonymous

      Sweet. Thanks for commenting. I’m not really familiar with SGM as a whole beyond what I have read on their own website about the gifts. I’ll fix the open but cautious part to continuationist.

      Thanks Matt